Discussion:
Sigh! Back To Microsoft Compiler
(too old to reply)
Ciro Cornejo
2014-02-20 00:16:22 UTC
Permalink
Seriously? !!!

Come on guys, this makes the compiler unusable.

...but as long as you're making a toy compiler, would you consider making one that does not support pthreads and so avoids this problem?

Thanks.

Hi! Sorry for the interruption, but you may want to take at least a few seconds
to look into some recent license changes for the software you're about to
install.

Parts of the "winpthreads" library will be compiled into every binary file (EXE
or DLL) you create. It's a necessary evil that is currently required in order to
provide support for threads and concurrency in programs compiled by GCC.

The license for winpthreads requires you to reproduce its text in every copy or
substantial portion of the winpthreads library that you distribute. This means
that even if you just want to distribute a single small executable, created with
TDM-GCC (or any winpthreads-based GCC release), you must include a copy of that
license.

Check the license out in the file "COPYING.winpthreads.txt", which will be
installed along with TDM-GCC. Consult with a lawyer if you have any concerns
about how you can use this software.

Does this new license hurt your usage of GCC? Let the developers know!

File a feature request asking them to change the winpthreads license or get rid
of GCC's winpthreads requirement, at:
https://sourceforge.net/p/mingw-w64/feature-requests/new/

Send an email to the MinGW-w64 mailing list, at:
mingw-w64-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Kai Tietz
2014-02-20 09:14:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Seriously? !!!
Come on guys, this makes the compiler unusable.
What?
Post by Ciro Cornejo
...but as long as you're making a toy compiler, would you consider making
one that does not support pthreads and so avoids this problem?
Why we should make a compiler which doesn't support pthreads? pthreads
is a user-library and it is up to you to use it or not.
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Thanks.
Hi! Sorry for the interruption, but you may want to take at least a few seconds
to look into some recent license changes for the software you're about to
install.
What license-changes? Yes, winpthread uses a more liberal license for
developers as other win32 based pthread libraries do. So yes, it is a
BSD license, and therefore you might need to mention that you are
using is it. This is just fair.
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Parts of the "winpthreads" library will be compiled into every binary file (EXE
That isn't true. First this applies only to gcc-version built with
posix-threading model. For it, either it is linked in as shared
library, or if you request it as static library.
If you don't want to rely on posix-threading-model, then simply don't
use it and choose a toolchain buiild with win32-threading mode (by the
way the default configuration).

I would advice you to look in more detail to license issues. MS
compiler has them, and gcc & mingw(-w64) do so too. You will be
wondering what other licenses you are using for just building a simple
hello-world-application with mingw(-w64). For getting an idea you
might to take a look to the COPYING.MinGW-w64-runtime license.

You seem to mix here the term "free software" with "free for nothing
software", and "copy other people's work without acknowledge it".
Post by Ciro Cornejo
or DLL) you create. It's a necessary evil that is currently required in order to
provide support for threads and concurrency in programs compiled by GCC.
The license for winpthreads requires you to reproduce its text in every copy or
substantial portion of the winpthreads library that you distribute. This means
that even if you just want to distribute a single small executable, created with
TDM-GCC (or any winpthreads-based GCC release), you must include a copy of that
license.
INAL, but in general you might be right. If you want to be fair, you
should need to mention other derived work you are using in your
application too. We see this pretty liberal, nevertheless people like
you are showing to us that we might should reconsider about that.
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Check the license out in the file "COPYING.winpthreads.txt", which will be
Where you see COPYING.winpthreads.txt file? It isn't part of
winpthread. We have there a file named "COPYING". I assume you are
referring to that.

Regards,
Kai
LRN
2014-02-20 09:19:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kai Tietz
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Seriously? !!!
Come on guys, this makes the compiler unusable.
What?
Post by Ciro Cornejo
...but as long as you're making a toy compiler, would you
consider making one that does not support pthreads and so avoids
this problem?
Why we should make a compiler which doesn't support pthreads?
pthreads is a user-library and it is up to you to use it or not.
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Thanks.
Hi! Sorry for the interruption, but you may want to take at least a few seconds
to look into some recent license changes for the software you're about to
install.
What license-changes? Yes, winpthread uses a more liberal license
for developers as other win32 based pthread libraries do. So yes,
it is a BSD license, and therefore you might need to mention that
you are using is it. This is just fair.
To be precise, it's a MIT license[1]. The text OP is referring to is
explained in [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License
[2]
https://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/178486/what-exactly-does-the-condition-in-the-mit-license-imply


- --
O< ascii ribbon - stop html email! - www.asciiribbon.org
Kai Tietz
2014-02-20 09:28:19 UTC
Permalink
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
To be precise, it's a MIT license[1]. The text OP is referring to is
explained in [2].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License
[2]
https://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/178486/what-exactly-does-the-condition-in-the-mit-license-imply
Thanks LRN for the correction. Yes it is MIT one. I got confused due
we used for other parts BSD.

Regards,
Kai

Ciro: one thing I forget in my initial reply. Before posting to this
list you need to subscribe. This is required to avoid spammers
flooding this mailing-list. If you don't subscribe your mail needs to
be moderated and this might takes time.
Hannes Domani
2014-02-20 11:47:45 UTC
Permalink
Hello
I would advice you to look in more detail to license issues.  MS
compiler has them, and gcc & mingw(-w64) do so too.  You will be
wondering what other licenses you are using for just building a simple
hello-world-application with mingw(-w64).  For getting an idea you
might to take a look to the COPYING.MinGW-w64-runtime license.
This is confusing me now as well.
Aren't the files of mingw-w64-headers and mingw-w64-crt in the public domain?
At least it says so in those files:

/**
* This file has no copyright assigned and is placed in the Public Domain.
* This file is part of the mingw-w64 runtime package.
* No warranty is given; refer to the file DISCLAIMER.PD within this package.
*/ So when does the COPYING.MinGW-w64-runtime apply?

Regards
Domani Hannes
Kai Tietz
2014-02-20 12:16:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hannes Domani
Hello
Post by Kai Tietz
I would advice you to look in more detail to license issues. MS
compiler has them, and gcc & mingw(-w64) do so too. You will be
wondering what other licenses you are using for just building a simple
hello-world-application with mingw(-w64). For getting an idea you
might to take a look to the COPYING.MinGW-w64-runtime license.
This is confusing me now as well.
Aren't the files of mingw-w64-headers and mingw-w64-crt in the public domain?
/**
* This file has no copyright assigned and is placed in the Public Domain.
* This file is part of the mingw-w64 runtime package.
* No warranty is given; refer to the file DISCLAIMER.PD within this package.
*/ So when does the COPYING.MinGW-w64-runtime apply?
Regards
Domani Hannes
There is nothing confusing about that. Most of the licenses are part
of MinGW.org's startup too. Never understood why they don't provide
such a readme file about used runtime-license as we do.

Anyway, I see that there seems to be a lot of confusing, rumors, and
uncertainties about licenses. So I try to explain.

Some of the headers are in PD (at least for places where it is
possible to put something active into public domain). For other
places (please take a look to DISCLAIMER.PD) you will find that ZPL is
used instead.

Nevertheless not all parts of startup-code (and these aren't headers)
are using ZPL/PD licenses. Again read the license-files or look into
the source files itself. Eg gdtoa isn't PD, etc

Regards,
Kai
Jim Michaels
2014-03-20 08:33:21 UTC
Permalink
 but I thought that it was said here that the win32 version does not work with sjlj in a stable way - yet?
________________________________
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Mingw-w64-public] Sigh! Back To Microsoft Compiler
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Seriously? !!!
Come on guys, this makes the compiler unusable.
What?
Post by Ciro Cornejo
...but as long as you're making a toy compiler, would you consider making
one that does not support pthreads and so avoids this problem?
Why we should make a compiler which doesn't support pthreads? pthreads
is a user-library and it is up to you to use it or not.
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Thanks.
Hi! Sorry for the interruption, but you may want to take at least a few seconds
to look into some recent license changes for the software you're about to
install.
What license-changes?  Yes, winpthread uses a more liberal license for
developers as other win32 based pthread libraries do.  So yes, it is a
BSD license, and therefore you might need to mention that you are
using is it.  This is just fair.
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Parts of the "winpthreads" library will be compiled into every binary file (EXE
That isn't true.  First this applies only to gcc-version built with
posix-threading model. For it, either it is linked in as shared
library, or if you request it as static library.
If you don't want to rely on posix-threading-model, then simply don't
use it and choose a toolchain buiild with win32-threading mode (by the
way the default configuration).
I would advice you to look in more detail to license issues.  MS
compiler has them, and gcc & mingw(-w64) do so too.  You will be
wondering what other licenses you are using for just building a simple
hello-world-application with mingw(-w64).  For getting an idea you
might to take a look to the COPYING.MinGW-w64-runtime license.
You seem to mix here the term "free software" with "free for nothing
software", and "copy other people's work without acknowledge it".
Post by Ciro Cornejo
or DLL) you create. It's a necessary evil that is currently required in order to
provide support for threads and concurrency in programs compiled by GCC.
The license for winpthreads requires you to reproduce its text in every copy or
substantial portion of the winpthreads library that you distribute. This means
that even if you just want to distribute a single small executable, created with
TDM-GCC (or any winpthreads-based GCC release), you must include a copy of that
license.
INAL, but in general you might be right.  If you want to be fair, you
should need to mention other derived work you are using in your
application too.  We see this pretty liberal, nevertheless people like
you are showing to us that we might should reconsider about that.
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Check the license out in the file "COPYING.winpthreads.txt", which will be
Where you see COPYING.winpthreads.txt file?  It isn't part of
winpthread.  We have there a file named "COPYING".  I assume you are
referring to that.
Regards,
Kai
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Ray Donnelly
2014-03-20 09:34:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Michaels
but I thought that it was said here that the win32 version does not work
with sjlj in a stable way - yet?
You've resurrected a month old thread with an email that is 100%
non-sequitur. At no point in this this thread has anyone mentioned
sjlj. Also, you are talking about some object or product without any
indication of what "it" is, nor who it was "here" who said "that"
about "it". Would it be possible for you to connect the dots please?
Post by Jim Michaels
________________________________
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Mingw-w64-public] Sigh! Back To Microsoft Compiler
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Seriously? !!!
Come on guys, this makes the compiler unusable.
What?
Post by Ciro Cornejo
...but as long as you're making a toy compiler, would you consider making
one that does not support pthreads and so avoids this problem?
Why we should make a compiler which doesn't support pthreads? pthreads
is a user-library and it is up to you to use it or not.
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Thanks.
Hi! Sorry for the interruption, but you may want to take at least a few seconds
to look into some recent license changes for the software you're about to
install.
What license-changes? Yes, winpthread uses a more liberal license for
developers as other win32 based pthread libraries do. So yes, it is a
BSD license, and therefore you might need to mention that you are
using is it. This is just fair.
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Parts of the "winpthreads" library will be compiled into every binary file (EXE
That isn't true. First this applies only to gcc-version built with
posix-threading model. For it, either it is linked in as shared
library, or if you request it as static library.
If you don't want to rely on posix-threading-model, then simply don't
use it and choose a toolchain buiild with win32-threading mode (by the
way the default configuration).
I would advice you to look in more detail to license issues. MS
compiler has them, and gcc & mingw(-w64) do so too. You will be
wondering what other licenses you are using for just building a simple
hello-world-application with mingw(-w64). For getting an idea you
might to take a look to the COPYING.MinGW-w64-runtime license.
You seem to mix here the term "free software" with "free for nothing
software", and "copy other people's work without acknowledge it".
Post by Ciro Cornejo
or DLL) you create. It's a necessary evil that is currently required in order to
provide support for threads and concurrency in programs compiled by GCC.
The license for winpthreads requires you to reproduce its text in every
copy
or
substantial portion of the winpthreads library that you distribute. This means
that even if you just want to distribute a single small executable,
created
with
TDM-GCC (or any winpthreads-based GCC release), you must include a copy of that
license.
INAL, but in general you might be right. If you want to be fair, you
should need to mention other derived work you are using in your
application too. We see this pretty liberal, nevertheless people like
you are showing to us that we might should reconsider about that.
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Check the license out in the file "COPYING.winpthreads.txt", which will be
Where you see COPYING.winpthreads.txt file? It isn't part of
winpthread. We have there a file named "COPYING". I assume you are
referring to that.
Regards,
Kai
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Jim Michaels
2014-03-24 19:15:39 UTC
Permalink
to quote my earlier email (compilers still there and suspect win32 still may not work) I had other problems with the current 4.8.2 which I have already addresses elsewhere.
===[snip]


 d:\i686-4.8.2-release-win32-sjlj-rt_v3-rev0\mingw32\bin\g++.exe       -Wall -Wextra -v -save-temps -Xlinker -Map=32\df.32.map -Ofast 
-std=c++11   -s   -isystem /libpq/ -isystem /libpq/server/libpq/
-isystem /prj/fltk/fltk-2.0.x-alpha-r9042/ -isystem
/prj/fltk/fltk-2.0.x-alpha-r9042/lib/ -isystem /prj/zlib-1.2.5/ -isystem /prj/boost/boost32 -o 32\df.exe  df.cpp prsinum.cpp atoi64.cpp
strfuncs.cpp
                                  32\df.manifest.res -lshlwapi -lkernel32  -lstdc++    2>32\errgw32df

is my command line. I am suspecting there is something wrong with my commandline.


this commandline works for 64-bit:
 d:\x86_64-4.8.2-release-win32-sjlj-rt_v3-rev0\mingw64\bin\g++.exe      -Wall -Wextra -v -save-temps -Xlinker -Map=64\df.64.map -Ofast 
-std=c++11   -s   -isystem /libpq/ -isystem /libpq/server/libpq/
-isystem /prj/fltk/fltk-2.0.x-alpha-r9042/ -isystem
/prj/fltk/fltk-2.0.x-alpha-r9042/lib/ -isystem /prj/zlib-1.2.5/ -isystem /prj/boost/boost64  -o 64\df.exe  df.cpp prsinum.cpp atoi64.cpp
strfuncs.cpp
                                    64\df.manifest.res -lshlwapi -lkernel32  -lstdc++    2>64\errgw64df

but they are exactly the same with the exception of the g++ path and the destination of the exe!

I am suspecting there is a problem with the mingw-builds
i686-4.8.2-release-win32-sjlj-rt_v3-rev0. it won't link its own shlwapi
library. here is the only error message.

===[snip]
Jim Michaels
________________________________
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Mingw-w64-public] Sigh! Back To Microsoft Compiler
  but I thought that it was said here that the win32 version does not work
with sjlj in a stable way - yet?
You've resurrected a month old thread with an email that is 100%
non-sequitur. At no point in this this thread has anyone mentioned
sjlj. Also, you are talking about some object or product without any
indication of what "it" is, nor who it was "here" who said "that"
about "it". Would it be possible for you to connect the dots please?
________________________________
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Mingw-w64-public] Sigh! Back To Microsoft Compiler
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Seriously? !!!
Come on guys, this makes the compiler unusable.
What?
Post by Ciro Cornejo
...but as long as you're making a toy compiler, would you consider making
one that does not support pthreads and so avoids this problem?
Why we should make a compiler which doesn't support pthreads? pthreads
is a user-library and it is up to you to use it or not.
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Thanks.
Hi! Sorry for the interruption, but you may want to take at least a few seconds
to look into some recent license changes for the software you're about to
install.
What license-changes?  Yes, winpthread uses a more liberal license for
developers as other win32 based pthread libraries do.  So yes, it is a
BSD license, and therefore you might need to mention that you are
using is it.  This is just fair.
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Parts of the "winpthreads" library will be compiled into every binary file (EXE
That isn't true.  First this applies only to gcc-version built with
posix-threading model. For it, either it is linked in as shared
library, or if you request it as static library.
If you don't want to rely on posix-threading-model, then simply don't
use it and choose a toolchain buiild with win32-threading mode (by the
way the default configuration).
I would advice you to look in more detail to license issues.  MS
compiler has them, and gcc & mingw(-w64) do so too.  You will be
wondering what other licenses you are using for just building a simple
hello-world-application with mingw(-w64).  For getting an idea you
might to take a look to the COPYING.MinGW-w64-runtime license.
You seem to mix here the term "free software" with "free for nothing
software", and "copy other people's work without acknowledge it".
Post by Ciro Cornejo
or DLL) you create. It's a necessary evil that is currently required in order to
provide support for threads and concurrency in programs compiled by GCC.
The license for winpthreads requires you to reproduce its text in every
copy
or
substantial portion of the winpthreads library that you distribute. This means
that even if you just want to distribute a single small executable,
created
with
TDM-GCC (or any winpthreads-based GCC release), you must include a copy of that
license.
INAL, but in general you might be right.  If you want to be fair, you
should need to mention other derived work you are using in your
application too.  We see this pretty liberal, nevertheless people like
you are showing to us that we might should reconsider about that.
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Check the license out in the file "COPYING.winpthreads.txt", which will be
Where you see COPYING.winpthreads.txt file?  It isn't part of
winpthread.  We have there a file named "COPYING".  I assume you are
referring to that.
Regards,
Kai
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Alexpux
2014-03-24 19:23:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Michaels
to quote my earlier email (compilers still there and suspect win32 still may not work) I had other problems with the current 4.8.2 which I have already addresses elsewhere.
===[snip]
d:\i686-4.8.2-release-win32-sjlj-rt_v3-rev0\mingw32\bin\g++.exe -Wall -Wextra -v -save-temps -Xlinker -Map=32\df.32.map -Ofast -std=c++11 -s -isystem /libpq/ -isystem /libpq/server/libpq/ -isystem /prj/fltk/fltk-2.0.x-alpha-r9042/ -isystem /prj/fltk/fltk-2.0.x-alpha-r9042/lib/ -isystem /prj/zlib-1.2.5/ -isystem /prj/boost/boost32 -o 32\df.exe df.cpp prsinum.cpp atoi64.cpp strfuncs.cpp
32\df.manifest.res -lshlwapi -lkernel32 -lstdc++ 2>32\errgw32df
is my command line. I am suspecting there is something wrong with my commandline.
d:\x86_64-4.8.2-release-win32-sjlj-rt_v3-rev0\mingw64\bin\g++.exe -Wall -Wextra -v -save-temps -Xlinker -Map=64\df.64.map -Ofast -std=c++11 -s -isystem /libpq/ -isystem /libpq/server/libpq/ -isystem /prj/fltk/fltk-2.0.x-alpha-r9042/ -isystem /prj/fltk/fltk-2.0.x-alpha-r9042/lib/ -isystem /prj/zlib-1.2.5/ -isystem /prj/boost/boost64 -o 64\df.exe df.cpp prsinum.cpp atoi64.cpp strfuncs.cpp
64\df.manifest.res -lshlwapi -lkernel32 -lstdc++ 2>64\errgw64df
but they are exactly the same with the exception of the g++ path and the destination of the exe!
I am suspecting there is a problem with the mingw-builds i686-4.8.2-release-win32-sjlj-rt_v3-rev0. it won't link its own shlwapi library. here is the only error message.
Try rev3.
i686-4.8.2-release-win32-sjlj-rt_v3-rev3.7z

Regards,
Alexey.
Post by Jim Michaels
===[snip]
Jim Michaels
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Mingw-w64-public] Sigh! Back To Microsoft Compiler
Post by Jim Michaels
but I thought that it was said here that the win32 version does not work
with sjlj in a stable way - yet?
You've resurrected a month old thread with an email that is 100%
non-sequitur. At no point in this this thread has anyone mentioned
sjlj. Also, you are talking about some object or product without any
indication of what "it" is, nor who it was "here" who said "that"
about "it". Would it be possible for you to connect the dots please?
Post by Jim Michaels
________________________________
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Mingw-w64-public] Sigh! Back To Microsoft Compiler
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Seriously? !!!
Come on guys, this makes the compiler unusable.
What?
Post by Ciro Cornejo
...but as long as you're making a toy compiler, would you consider making
one that does not support pthreads and so avoids this problem?
Why we should make a compiler which doesn't support pthreads? pthreads
is a user-library and it is up to you to use it or not.
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Thanks.
Hi! Sorry for the interruption, but you may want to take at least a few seconds
to look into some recent license changes for the software you're about to
install.
What license-changes? Yes, winpthread uses a more liberal license for
developers as other win32 based pthread libraries do. So yes, it is a
BSD license, and therefore you might need to mention that you are
using is it. This is just fair.
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Parts of the "winpthreads" library will be compiled into every binary file (EXE
That isn't true. First this applies only to gcc-version built with
posix-threading model. For it, either it is linked in as shared
library, or if you request it as static library.
If you don't want to rely on posix-threading-model, then simply don't
use it and choose a toolchain buiild with win32-threading mode (by the
way the default configuration).
I would advice you to look in more detail to license issues. MS
compiler has them, and gcc & mingw(-w64) do so too. You will be
wondering what other licenses you are using for just building a simple
hello-world-application with mingw(-w64). For getting an idea you
might to take a look to the COPYING.MinGW-w64-runtime license.
You seem to mix here the term "free software" with "free for nothing
software", and "copy other people's work without acknowledge it".
Post by Ciro Cornejo
or DLL) you create. It's a necessary evil that is currently required in order to
provide support for threads and concurrency in programs compiled by GCC.
The license for winpthreads requires you to reproduce its text in every
copy
or
substantial portion of the winpthreads library that you distribute. This means
that even if you just want to distribute a single small executable,
created
with
TDM-GCC (or any winpthreads-based GCC release), you must include a copy of that
license.
INAL, but in general you might be right. If you want to be fair, you
should need to mention other derived work you are using in your
application too. We see this pretty liberal, nevertheless people like
you are showing to us that we might should reconsider about that.
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Check the license out in the file "COPYING.winpthreads.txt", which will be
Where you see COPYING.winpthreads.txt file? It isn't part of
winpthread. We have there a file named "COPYING". I assume you are
referring to that.
Regards,
Kai
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Adrien Nader
2014-02-20 10:15:36 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
Post by Ciro Cornejo
Seriously? !!!
Come on guys, this makes the compiler unusable.
...but as long as you're making a toy compiler, would you consider making one that does not support pthreads and so avoids this problem?
I think we will all skip the "toy" qualifier since we know how much it
is used.

Anyway, iirc, TDM has mentioned he didn't enjoy some of the licenses
involved (and for winpthreads in particular I think but don't take my
word on that). I'm wondering if reaading from his website hasn't shown
you only half of the picture.

Complying with the MIT license is definitely not difficult. Even Apple
manages to do it. It is mostly a matter of putting the corresponding
text somewhere which can be accessed; for GUI applications, this
typically goes under "About" into the "Help" menu.

Note also that many toolchains are available and listed on
http://mingw-w64.sourceforge.net/download.php .
Most have moved to posix threading but version 1.3 of win-builds.org is
still available at http://win-builds.org/1.3 .
You are also free to build toolchains yourself in case none of the
existing configuration combinations fit your needs.

Regards,
Adrien Nader
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